Seventh Day Adventist Interview
with Kem Capps

May 10, 1999

Jennifer Possick: Could you start with your background with Seventh Day Adventists.

Kem: Sure. On how I, how I...

Jenn: How you came into it.

Kem: Well, I was raised in the Baptist Church. My family is all, are all Baptist. And I, , actually I didn't know anything about the Seventh Day Adventist religion until I met Dana, my husband. And I met him about, , eleven years ago, and basically, at the time in my life I was in college, or no, I had just gotten out of college. And I really wasn't going to church anywhere at that point, I had moved out of my parent's house. You know I was living over at [?]. I wasn't really involved with anything religious or anything like that but I think, I think I had a deep seeded desire to be involved in something religious, you know. I think I was looking for something spiritual at that time. And, , so when I met him, he was Seventh Day Adventist, and I started going to the church that we go to now. Actually, we were a little smaller then, but, , so I started attending church with him and , kind of learning more about what Adventists are and starting to learn the bible studies with him and with the pastor of that church at that time and, , just decided at that point that that's what, what I was being led to do, to join that, because I, when I joined, when I first became involved with that church it was a very...very loving church I was, I just felt that it was very spiritual, very Bible based and , so I attended church with him pretty regularly at that time. And then about a year and a half later I decided that I wanted to join that church, and I, so I was baptiz, I was rebaptized. Actually, I had been baptized when I was, I think I was eleven or twelve the first time and so I decided at that point to be rebaptized into that church and , did that and became a member, and then about another year and half later we got married. So...That's pretty much how I learned about it. I didn't know anything about it, up until that point. I had never even heard of it, so...

Jenn: , how would you define the main beliefs of Seventh Day Adventists?

Kem: Well, Dana and I were going over some of this stuff last night. , there are a lot of, there are a lot of doctrines. I, , and a lot of them, Jenn, I think are similar to other Christian, you know Protestant religions. But I think Adventists , a couple of things, well, and, and it's really based on why we're called Seventh Day Adventists, I think. One of them is the belief in keeping the Sabbath, keeping Saturday instead of Sunday. That's a core, that's probably the primary difference, I would say or one of the biggest differences. , and then, , but , other beliefs, we, you know we have a strong belief that he's coming back, that Jesus Christ is coming back soon. And that's the other Advent, that's the Adventist part of the Seventh Day Adventist name. And then you know we believe in, in , God, Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, baptism by immersion, tithing, tithing offering, you know a lot of those things are very similar to others, , but I wish I could name off all twenty seven doctrines, but I can't. But I would say those are . , we have a strong belief in church as a family of Christ. And, , I'm trying to think over all those last night. . You know, God, we believe, you know when I say God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit, it's God the father, Jesus Christ is the son and how he came to earth to die for us on the cross and he was resurrected. We believe in all of that. Then , the Holy Spirit as being a, comforter that was sent to guide us, you know, in our daily lives and convict us of sin and , all of that. So, I would say those are our main goals.

Jenn: Is there anything like that, that it's said that you all believe that you don't actually believe, like that you personally don't?

Kem: No. I don't think so.

Jenn: Ok.

Kem: (laughter)

Jenn: Just wondering.

Kem: I would say the one thing that I've learned about Seventh Day Adventists is that all, all of our beliefs are very, you can prove them in the Bible. And I think that's what's, when you get involved with Seventh Day Adventists I think that's one of the things that really draws you in is that it's very based on the bible. You know, we believe that the bible is God's holy word and that you know that men were inspired by God to write it. And , that, that God communicates to us through the word so. That, you know I think that's why it's such a, it's such a wonderful religion.

Jenn: Mmhmm. What are the main ethical principles?

Kem: , well, a couple that, that came to mind when we were thinking about this last night and these are not, I wouldn't think these two things are really, , doctrinal as much as... Well, healthy living is, is a big...I don't want to call it a doctrine because it's not like you have to do this, I mean you have to be vegetarian or you know, because no one tells you, You have to do this. You have to do that. , I think Seventh Day Adventists, as a Seventh Day Adventist, we feel that healthy living, that our bodies are temples, you know. And that we should do everything we can to take care of ourselves, to take care of our bodies, keep our minds clear, , and just take, you know take care of ourselves because we feel that's what God wants us to do. So, as far as healthy living I would say ethically that would include diet and a lot of Seventh Day Adventists are vegetarian. I would say most, most of the, most Adventists are probably vegetarian.

Jenn: For dietary reasons?

Kem: Well, the bible is pretty clear about, , and it's in the book of Leviticus, It talks about unclean foods and clean foods and...Don't ask me to be specific, my husband can remember real well specifically what animals are considered clean and what animals aren't clean. But I would say, generally speaking we don't eat pork and , shellfish and that kind of thing , or shrimp. That, some, you know, there's different things... I never liked seafood to begin with so that wasn't really an issue for me. But as far as, . And I am vegetarian. Dana and I are both vegetarians, but, , we, we stay away from pork, and , as far as other meats, it, it's really a personal thing. I have found that, that being an Adventist, nobody tries to force you into a certain lifestyle. But I think the more you experience this church and the more you learn about the bible and develop a relationship with God then you do...I think you do have that desire to take care of yourself and to, you know. And it's, I mean outside of church any, a lot of people are deciding that vegetarian eating is good for you, you know. So, I think it's just a matter of, , it is wanting to be as healthy as we can, you know. And I think that's a good thing. , other than vegetarianism it encompasses exercise, and drinking enough water and , you know, being, getting some fresh air and sunshine and , not smo...you know, and they do. We don't smoke, we don't drink, you know, but again those things are personal decisions that we make, you know. Personally I choose not to, not to do those things. So, Other ethical ...I don't know Jenn, actually, other than...We were trying to think up what ethical principles...To me so many times that kind of blends in with the main beliefs. I mean it's, you know, it's hard to distinguish between, between the two. , I would say one ethical, another ethical principle might be , the issue of jewelry, self- adornment. And this, to be truthful, this is an area that's kind of gray or kind of ...To me, to me personally, these ethical principles are personal decisions that people make--personal choices that people make. , as far as self-adornment I, you know, I think that means, to me, to me that means that we don't, that we're simplistic in how we dress, or , that we try to be modest, you know, try to look nic...you know just try to...I don't how to say this without being blunt. If I say don't, try not to look trashy or anything like that, does that make sense?

Jenn: Yeah.

Kem: I think that's, in my mind, that's what we try to avoid, , just to be modest and conservative and look decent you know. , but those are the, about the only two things that we could come up with, outside of our main beliefs. Does that answer?

Jenn: Yeah that's fine. (laughter)

Jenn: Are there any particular rituals or symbols?

Kem: No, we didn't, we couldn't think of anything in particular.

Jenn: Okay. , sacred texts?

Kem: Nothing other than the Bible, , as far as being a sacred text. We've got like the Bible as God's holy word, which is what we would consider the sacred text.

Jenn: Okay. , do you have a favorite story?

Kem: Are you talking about a Bible story or...

Jenn: , I suppose, I suppose it could be like a, like a Bible story or one specific to Seventh Day Adventists.

Kem: (pause) I don't, I don't know of any particular Bible story that's more prevalent than anything else.

Jenn: Okay.

Kem: Is that, is that okay. (laughter)

Jenn: Yeah, that's fine. What word, what word would you use to describe the ultimate focus?

Kem: Well, we decided maybe, God is love. , and I'll go on to question nber seven (How would you describe the ultimate focus of your religion as you have just named it?) Ôcause it kind of ties in with nber six.

Jenn: h.

Kem: , the ultimate focus of our religion, to me, is that God loves us, and that He wants to have a relationship with us, and make us like Him. There's a verse in the bible that, that says, By beholding, we are changed. And I think that's, so many times, I've heard that. I think we have a real desire to develop a relationship to the extent that we become more Christ-like, so that we can share that with other people. I think. I really think that's our primary focus.

Jenn: , how would Seventh Day Adventists Answer the question what is the purpose of life?

Kem: , to, and I think, that goes along with the, the one before that, to strive to develop a personal relationship with God.

Jenn: Yeah.

Kem: , and to share that with others, I think. I think that's so that we can all be with Him eventually. You know? I think that's why we feel like we're here.

Jenn: What, what are the ways in your religion that you won't, that you don't get to be with Him then?

Kem: Well, you have to accept. I mean, we pretty much feel like, I mean, if you don't accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior...

Jenn: Then you...

Kem: No. I mean you have to accept, He is, and He is ever present. He is ever willing. He is always willing to be a part of our life. But, without accepting him as your savior, , you know, you can't develop that relationship, you can't know Him, you know.

Jenn: Mmhmm.

Kem: Because He's willing to do anything for us and He wants us to be with Him, but He gives us that choice.

Jenn: If , well I, I know in the Mormon religion, if they don't accept, if they don't believe in Mormonism they get, they believe they get a second chance after they die. Do you...

Kem: No.

Jenn: Okay. Just wondering.

Kem: (laughter) , but that's a good, that's interesting to see how religions are so different.

Jenn: Yeah. , how's the church structured?

Kem: , there is a , a general conference, that's what it's called, and that's throughout the worldÑworldwide. And then it's broken down, and that consists of like, all the big leaders of the church organization. And then it's broken down into divisions of, worldwide. Like, we are in the North American division, the United States. And then there are, there are different divisions all around the world. And then we then we, our North American division gets broken down into area conferences, and we are part of the Carolina conference, which is North and South Carolina. , and then there's, throughout the United States, there's different sections of the United States that make up those conference areas. And then from within the Carolina conference, then you have your churches, your separate churches. And then within the church is the pastor, and then the elders, and there's a group of elders under the pastor. And then there's deacons under the elders. And then regular church members.

Jenn: When the, when like they say, do the different sections ever come together?

Kem: Like, h?

Jenn: Like say the Carolinas.

Kem: Mmhmm. Once a year, we have a , it's called Campmeeting. And actually it's going to be at the end of this month. And we meet for a week. A week long, it's kind of like revival.

Jenn: Is it like anybody can go?

Kem: Oh, yeah. Anybody can go. And it's actually wonderful. They have all kinds of speakers and people camp out at...it's out at Lake Junaluska

Jenn: Oh, okay.

Kem: And, , it's the same time every year and the, this is for everybody in the Carolina conference to go. And then the leaders from the Carolina conference come down and do, do that meeting. They take care of that meeting. And sometimes the man, the leader, some of the leaders from the general conference will come also.

Jenn: Have you been to that?

Kem: Yeah.

Jenn: Is it like, really powerful?

Kem: Yeah, it's really, it's wonderful. Actually there is this, this time, the last weekend. It goes from, it starts on a , I think it starts on Monday and goes through Saturday. And this particular year there is a speaker on the weekend, Friday night and Saturday, and Saturday night who is fabulous. He's just really, you would probably really, I mean if you're ever interested in going, he is a really, a really good speaker. He's a young guy, he's been there before. He, , he has a very interesting background and , today he's a pastor at a church. But he is just really down to earth and really a great speaker, but . You would probably, I mean if you're, if you're interested in going it would be well worth going to. And they have, they have classes during the day and then meetings at night. So it's, it's pretty cool.

Jenn: H. , what difference does your religion make in your life?

Kem: , well I'd say the biggest difference it made in my life was going to Church on Saturday. And, for me that, that wasn't that big of a , that wasn't a sacrifice. I think it's, it's made a difference in my life because my family doesn't always understand. You know, they don't, they don't really understand much about Seventh Day Adventist religion. So, they've been a little, I think they're dealing with it now Ôcause it's been a long time that I've been going there. At the beginning, they had some problems with it, so that, that was a, ...Other than that, , I mean, other than the fact that back when, before I was involved with this church, I really had no spiritual experience. So just having that experience is, has made a huge difference for me.

Jenn: What attracts you most to Seventh Day Adventists?

Kem: , the fact that it's so, and I think that we've already covered this a little bit, but the fact that it's so, , Bible oriented. And the , the fact that it's a very loving religion. , all the people that I've met in this religion are very loving caring people. You know, people that aren't prejudiced and judgmental. You know they're just real accepting. So, you know, that means a lot to me.

Jenn: Yeah. , well, I guess we've kind of covered this already, but is there anything that you have problems with in your tradition.

Kem: No.

Jenn: , religion try to reflect upon and possibly even answer the questions: Who am I? Why am I here? Where am I going? Why do I, why do people suffer? How does Seventh Day Adventism deal with these questions? And are they satisfying personally?

Kem: Mmhmm. I would say the Adventist, if you asked them who am I, I think, as an Adventist, we feel like we are each children of God. , why am I here? To serve, to serve God, by serving others, I think is , why we're here. Where am I going? I think we're going, I think ultimately, hopefully we're going to heaven, but. And I think where are we going, we're going further in our walk with God, you know. And then why do I or people suffer? , you know a lot of, a lot of people want to blame God for suffering. But I, I think as, as an Adventist, I have felt like, or I have come to look at it a little differently in that God, I don't feel like God causes any of the suffering. , that that's, you know, we, we really feel like Satan has a very prevalent place on this earth and , that he causes the suffering. But, but we do feel like God allows the suffering to happen sometimes. Because He is, He is really ultimately in control of everything. But, , and that there are reasons why the suffering occurs. I don't know that you can ever have an understanding of why. I think one day we will. I think, we believe that one day, God is really going to, we're going to have a clear understanding why everything happens as it does. Because , we believe that God is, you know, totally in control of everything that happens and that there is a plan--there is a master plan. All of these little pieces, you know, fall together for a reason. And so, , does that answer that question?

Jenn: Mmhmm.

Kem: And I, yes I do find this, find all that to be very satisfying.

Jenn: , kind of opposite from where are you going, what, what do Adventists, Seventh Day Adventists believe like, where people came from? Like were people with God to begin with and then came to this earth or...

Kem: No, we have, well, that's another one of our main beliefs is in the creation as it's stated in Genesis, about , that God created the earth and the animals and the vegetation and all that, and then created man, and , then created woman and , and just , I think the bible says that He just spoke it and it happened. And man came to be. So, other than that, we can't really explain. God created Adam and Eve and everything else here, and that's it, that's...

Jenn: So then is the belief that we're like, we only come into being like when conception actually happens, never before that? Like, I know some religions believe that like you begin in like a heavenly type realm, and you the come to earth for whatever purpose, and then go back to God afterwards. ...

Kem: Well, now we believe Adam and Eve were created by God directly. , after that, after Adam and Eve chose to sin in the garden, , as far as everybody else that is on this earth they're, you know, we're han, we come from, we're created by you know normal man and woman.

Jenn: Yeah.

Kem: , I would say we believe that life begins at conception, definitely, . And then we will experience death.

Jenn: And there's no life after death?

Kem: No, we, we believe in heaven. We do not believe that , when we die we go to heaven immediately. And that is, that's another difference from , like Baptists, you know Presbyterians. , we believe that when you die , that when you're dead, basically you're dead. And that until Jesus Christ returns to the, returns to the earth, Ôcause the bible is very clear about Him returning to earth to take His believers to heaven, that we will remain in the grave until that time.

Jenn: So, the souls are just in the earth until that time?

Kem: There is well, we don't, we believe, we don't believe in , a lot of religions believe that when you die your soul goes to heaven. We don't believe, and that, that makes the soul immortal. And we don't believe, we believe that God is immortal, but we are not immortal.

Jenn: H.

Kem: At the point of death. Now when Jesus Christ returns to the earth for us...

Jenn: Then you'll become...

Kem: Then He trans, then we are transformed, or...What is, there is a word that we use. Transformed, I guess, into, , really into what He originally wanted us to be before sin came into being. And then we will spend eternity with Him.

Jenn: Okay. Thanks. , what do Seventh Day Adventists teach with regards to men and women and relationships between the two?

Kem: , pretty much that men and women are equal partners in marriage, in church responsibilities. , I have never found that there is any kind of, any, I've never felt like Adventists believe that women are any, in any kind of lower position. You know what I'm saying?

Jenn: Yeah.

Kem: Okay.

Jenn: Are all preachers, is that the right word? Are they all male?

Kem: No, actually we do have some female pastors. Now, I don't know that we have like, we have some churches who have like husbands and wives...

Jenn: That are both?

Kem: That are both pastors. Like in our church actually.

Jenn: Oh, really.

Kem: We had , our pastor and his wife was considered an associate pastor. , there's another church actually down in Fletcher that has both the wife and husband are both pastors at that church. I don't know that we have any churches that have only a woman as pastor, so I don't there may be...I don't know a lot about that Jenn, but there may be. That may not be something that is preferred. Like just a woman. You know what I'm saying?

Jenn: Yeah. , what does your religion teach with regard to the han relationship with non-han nature?

Kem: I'm not sure I really understood that question. , is that talking about how we feel about the earth, or the, I mean like creation in general or animals or. Do you know?

Jenn: I honestly don't. I would say you could apply it to any or all of the above.

Kem: Well, I think, well Adventists are very, , very much into creation as a whole. Very in awe of crea, of, of God's creation. And love to spend, I mean and that goes a little bit back to the healthy living, you know. Adventists as a whole, I think really advocate for spending a lot of time in nature, because we kind of see it as a way to experience God a little more fully, to be in the creation, out in the creation that he created. And I think as a whole Adventists are very respectful of, you know, the environment, what I should say. Does that answer your question?

Jenn: , how have Seventh day Adventists been accepted in America historically and in present day. And has there been any experience of persecution or...

Kem: The only thing that we could think of, and I, I really haven't experienced this problem myself, that , actually my husband did at one time, is problems finding work occasionally because of going to church on Saturday.

Jenn: Oh, okay.

Kem: A lot of, , a lot of people do occasionally experience that, let's say you're not in a job that's a Monday through Friday job. Like I have, my job is Monday through Friday so it's really not an issue. He, when my husband first became an Adventist, he was working for UPS and , you know they drive and deliver on Saturday and , at that time you know he was convicted that that's not what he wanted to be doing and , so, he had, he lost, he ended up leaving that job, a very good job as a matter of fact. And there, I know, we have had other people in our church that have either had to change jobs or have faced a lot of confrontation at work about needing to be off on Saturday.

Jenn: H.

Kem: But people, you know when you tell them it's for your religious purposes most people will, most people come around. But, , there have been people...That's the only really issue, maybe a persecution issue that we can think of

Jenn: Mmhmm. What about, , because it is a fundamental belief system, right? Do you ever find people who, who just come in like with a, a...I think a lot of people have a prejudice again like fundamental religions. Do you ever find that at all?

Kem: You mean about, when you say, what do you mean exactly?

Jenn: Well, I think...

Kem: For example.

Jenn: Well, personally, I know a lot of people who reject most religion and then go even further with that and will definitely reject fundamentalist religions.

Kem: That have strong doctrinal beliefs. Is that...

Jenn: ,

Kem: Are pretty strict doctrinally?

Jenn: Kind of. Have you ever found that at all?

Kem: .

Jenn: Like it may just be from my, from my background.

Kem: People that have come into the church and...

Jenn: No, not come in but just, I don't know. I don't think I'm expressing myself very well.

Kem: I'm sure people have. I don't know if I know of any particular examples though to give you for that. , different people have experienced, like my sister-in-law has experienced persecution from friends, from her family for being, just for being Seventh Day Adventist in general, because it represents differences. We are different. We are different from most other Protestant religions. And I think that just because of that a lot of people are prejudiced. You know, they just, people are prejudiced. They dislike you for who you are or who you want to be. That's general in most areas of our life.

Jenn: , do you have kids at all?

Kem: No, don't have kids. So, I can't really, I can't address 18. (What have been the experiences of your children when it comes to practicing their religion and freedom of expression they experience, say, for instance, in the public schools of Asheville City/Buncombe County?)

Kem: Nineteen is pretty much the same thing we were just talking about. (Have you or other members of your community experienced any overt prejudice from people of other faith in Asheville?)

Jenn: Yeah. , what do, what do Seventh Day Adventists teach about religious truth claims of other religions?

Kem: Well, , as a whole Seventh Day Adventists are, as a Seventh Day Adventist, we believe we have found, in the Adventist religion, that we have found the truth, a truth that's pretty much based on biblical text. But, we don't feel like that alone is going to get you to heaven. You know what I'm saying? Just because you go to church on Saturday is not going to get you to heaven. We feel like the relationship you have with God is the only thing that's gonna, if you have a relationship with God and you experience that and , that is what, that's what's going to make the difference in your life. And we feel like there's going to be a lot of other Christians in all other kinds of faiths that will have that relationship. And , you know that, if they had that relationship, they'll be, they'll experience everything that we do. I mean, you know what I'm saying?

Jenn: Mmhmm. With that though do you, do you then still believe that they have to accept Jesus Christ as their Savior in order to get to heaven even if they have found that relationship with God?

Kem: Well, I don't know that you can distinguish. I mean if they have found a relationship with God...

Jenn: Well, people's definitions of God vary so widely, I feel.

Kem: Well, we believe that there's only one true God, and that's God the Father, and what His Son, that he sent His Son, Jesus Christ here to earth to die for our sins and that Jesus was resurrected and that only through a relationship with, and, and you know God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit really are, although they're three different distinct, that they really are one. And that only through that one path, , I mean, we, we don't feel like there's, we feel like there's one true Father. Do you understand?

Jenn: Mmhmm.

Kem: And that no matter what church you go to that, that's the only way, is through Him.

Jenn: What about, , religions who have a God, they just call Him by a different name?

Kem: They have a God or?...

Jenn: Well, say like Allah or...

Kem: Well, there are different names for God. I don't know. I don't know. I mean, is that the same...I would have to know who they were talking about, the same God that I'm talking about? I mean is that?

Jenn: I think, well, for, , like people may disagree with me but, I think that when people talk about God, they may have a different face of God, a different name for God, but it's, it's still usually the creator, the, the one who gives life to us and it has essentially the same meaning just it comes out in different ways.

Kem: How do I feel about that, or? How would the church feel about that? (pause) I mean, all I can say is that if this is the God in the, of the Bible, , our creator, God, the Father, if that's who we're talking about. I mean, there's different names for Him in the bible. (pause) I don't know that's all I can say.

Jenn: Okay. I'm sorry.

Kem: That's okay. You're making me think way too much. (laughter) Oh, I do have to go.

Jenn: Okay, I'll hurry.

Kem: These, these last questions. Whoo. What makes me happy, sad, angry. (overwhelmed look)

Jenn: You can just, or any of these you don't want to answer that's fine.

Kem: Two events in my life were turning [points]. Well, becoming an Adventist, finding God again in my life, was definitely a turning point for me. , another turning point, getting married (laughter) I don't know about another one. That, that was my biggest turning point in my life I would say. And I think it's because I finally got to know Jesus Christ more personally than ever before. You know. It was always before, religion was kind of expected as you're growing up, as you're a young child it's always kind of expected that you go to church and you do the right things. But at that point in my life I was an adult, and I was more, it was much more special. It was much more personal. Man, these lesson questions. I...I don't know if I can answer that.

Jenn: Okay.

Kem: I think there's plenty that I still need to learn from life. , (pause) , I think personally, the biggest thing I would change is I tend to be a person that is really driven and very busy and I work a lot, and my schedule is just constantly full of stuff. And, which at times, if you're not careful can really pull you away from God and that part of your life. And I think, I think that's an area in my life that needs constant changing. It needs constant work, you know. , that's about all I can say.

Jenn: I do, I actually have one more question.

Kem: Okay.

Jenn: About, well I, I was reading last night this thing on the Internet that had Bible sections. And I was reading about homosexuality, and I read like the, all the different things to back it up, but I'm wondering, if you think homosexuality is wrong, isn't that a prejudice in itself?

Kem: Well, one thing, well, this is, this me. , and I think Adventists as a whole, and I know that our pastor in dealing with...well, I'll just be blunt. I think our religion as a whole, and I think most Protestant religions see homosexuality as a sin. And the Bible is, is clear, it is clear, , that that act, the act of homosexuality is a sin. ...

Jenn: But feelings of it then isn't, or...

Kem: We, I'd say we see homosexuality [as a sin, but that doesn't mean we don't accept] the person. (The tape cut off here for a few seconds, but this was the gist of what was said.) Even though we don't accept the behavior, it doesn't mean we reject the person. You understand?

Jenn: Yeah.

Kem: Personally, I feel like, and this is just me personally, you know I do believe that homosexuality is a sin, the act of homosexuality is a sin, but I'm not going to disassociate with people if that's something that they have made a choice to do. Do you understand what I'm saying? , because I have, I work with several people that are homosexual and they are wonderful people. You know, giving people, there's no issues with work, there's no, I mean that's not a part of their lives that I'm involved in, that I'm, that is a, I think it's a sin, Jenn, but a think it's a personal thing, I think it's a personal issue between that person and God. Do you understand?

Jenn: Yeah. Do you, Ôcause I, what I was reading last night said like, if you are homosexual you should do this and this and this to have God forgive you and to repent or change your ways or...Do you believe that as well?

Kem: , yeah, we do believe in repentance. , we defi, repentance is, is not only asking for forgiveness but a turning away from sin. And so, you know I believe it's up to the person if they are convicted that their homosexuality is a sin in their life, then it's between, it's up to them to repent that sin and to ask God to give them strength to, to turn away from that sin. And God will do that, He is, , He is capable of changing people. I do believe that.

Jenn: So, like for me, I believe that like, that if God made somebody that way that's how they're supposed to be.

Kem: The thing is I don't believe that God made, see I don't, I don't believe that people are born with, as homosexuals. I believe that's a choice that people make. And that's me. Because homo, because in the Bible, I mean God has been very clear in the Bible that homosexuality is a sin. So, I can't understand how... He doesn't create sin, He doesn't, He is not the one who created sin. So, in my mind, He is not gonna create han beings in a sinful state. You understand what I'm... That was not something that came down for creation with Adam and Eve. , sin was a choice that was made, that's how it came in to being. And , so that's how I feel about. Do you understand? Am I making myself clear?

Jenn: Yeah. , I just, how, how would you then explain people who are gay who say I was born this way?

Kem: I guess that's a belief that they have. I, you know, I can't explain how they, why they feel that way. , and I, I've heard people say that. , and I guess that's the way that they feel. It's not something that I believe.

Jenn: Okay.

Kem: Does that?

Jenn: Mmhmm.